Laura Kirk is a versatile and accomplished actress, filmmaker, and professor. She’s renowned for her starring role in the critically acclaimed film Lisa Picard Is Famous, which premiered at the Cannes Film Festival. Her diverse filmography also includes roles in American Honey, The Sublime and Beautiful, and At First Sight. Born and raised in rural Kansas, Laura’s passion for storytelling led her to pursue a degree in theater and film from the University of Kansas. She further honed her craft in New York City, studying with esteemed instructors like Wynn Handman and Alan Arkin. Laura’s dedication to the art of filmmaking extends beyond acting. She is a respected educator, currently serving on the faculty of the University of Kansas’ Film and Media Department. Her insights and expertise have enriched the lives of countless students and aspiring filmmakers. In this episode of “In A World With Real Media,” Laura shares her unique perspective on the film industry, the power of visual storytelling, and the importance of authentic narratives. Join us for an engaging conversation that explores the intersection of art, media, and the human experience.
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-Transcript-
Brad Burrow (00:01):
Welcome to In a World With Real Media. I’m your host, Brad Burrow.
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In this podcast, we’ll dive into the lives of the most successful people in business.
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We’ll learn how they overcame adversity, took advantage
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Of opportunities
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And learned from their experiences. Learn from our experts. Get inspired, then go live your story. It’s in a world with real media.
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Welcome to the In A World With Real Media podcast. I’m Brad Burrow, and today we have Laura Kirk and I want to read a little bit of your bio from LinkedIn. I’m sure there’s other places where your bio is out there, but this is going to be an awesome podcast today. I’m really excited about this. A lot of times we have business people and different types of people on the podcast, but having an actress that has really done some cool things is, this is really cool. Great. I’m a little bit giddy about this, as you can tell. Let’s do it. Okay. So Laura Kirk is an award-winning filmmaker with credits as a producer and actor in many films, including Andrea Arnold’s American Honey. She has a stage career in New York off-Broadway in regionally, where she was also a teaching artist in homeless shelters for Outlaw Theater company and in schools for Dreamyard drama projects. So we want to talk about that too. Been in commercials for block advisors, Verizon, Wrangler Jeans, Jeep, Dr. Pepper. I mean, all the biggest brands out there is Co-founder of a mentoring group, women of Lawrence film publication, and when women wrote Hollywood. And probably the biggest thing is that you are an associate teaching professor at the University of Kansas for theater and film, which Alex from.
Laura Kirk (01:49):
That’s right.
Brad Burrow (01:51):
So Alex, you’re getting a shout up on the podcast, so really amazing. Well, it’s great to have you. This is really, really a cool opportunity for us. The first thing I was really, when I was kind of looking and learning about your background again, so you grew up in Compton? I did. Okay. Yeah. So you’ve always been from the Kansas area?
Laura Kirk (02:12):
I have. I am just realizing the minute I graduated from the University of Kansas. So yes, grew up in Li Compton Farm. Always went to Lawrence, heard a lot of music, and Lawrence being a music town and good friends there. So Lawrence was the fun place, but I’m actually really close with all of my friends from La Compton. We always say 1984. We’re the most tight graduating class of Perry La Compton High School, but we are, we’re close and we all gather quite regularly, and so it’s nice to be back. I went to KU and then the day I graduated, the next day I was on a plane to go play Miranda in at a theater company. And so then I continued my career in New York and Los Angeles until about 2012 when I came back. Is
Brad Burrow (03:08):
That right? Wow. That was a long time. So you were there 20 years. Did you live in New York or did you live kind of back and forth or?
Laura Kirk (03:16):
I lived in New York, mostly Brooklyn and Connecticut. And then I would do periods of time in Los Angeles, primarily in Los Felix and Malibu.
Brad Burrow (03:27):
So you made me think of, I remember watching the Nuclear War movie that was filmed in the north. Yeah, day after, the day after. Yeah. Yeah. Were you there when that was shot?
Laura Kirk (03:37):
I was aware of it, but I was a musical theater kid. That was not where my head was at.
Brad Burrow (03:44):
Yeah. It was just an interesting time. I went to Wichita State and I graduated in 85 from Wichita State.
Laura Kirk (03:49):
Love that program.
Brad Burrow (03:51):
And anyway, I remember watching that movie and coming out of class the next day, and there’s a big air base right. In Wichita, and I remember seeing bombers flying over and I’m like, oh my gosh, it’s happening. Right,
Laura Kirk (04:05):
Right, right. Yeah. There’s always going to be that day where you’re like, is something
Brad Burrow (04:09):
Happening? Yeah. Yeah. So I wondered about that. So I wanted to ask you what inspired you to become an actress? A lot of people probably think about that, but to actually do it.
Laura Kirk (04:23):
Yeah, definitely. It has to come from within because it’s so hard. It’s so competitive. But for me, once I started in high school, it was making people laugh. Honestly, that was what I really enjoyed. And then many students I meet who come to KU, or I meet them in Wichita or because I do Kansas Thespians conference, musical theater is this entry, and it’s such a fun way to perform, and people seem to really support it more than ever. It’s huge now. So I really thought opera music, singing, and then I got to KU and started doing Japanese, classical Japanese theater. And so I was just having lunch with Kevin Millon, who I mentioned. But we always talk about being open. You just never know what thing will lead to the next thing. So doing classical Japanese theater, I ended up traveling to Japan a number of times connected to this theater company. And the next thing you know, I’m in New York, I’m doing Shakespeare, I’ve met a whole new group of people, and then that leads to the next thing and the next thing. So
Brad Burrow (05:39):
Is that kind of advice that you would give to somebody that’s breaking the film? Just be open to the opportunities that come when they come. Yeah.
Laura Kirk (05:46):
Because just one will lead to the next and lead to the next. So a lot of times when I’m sitting with students, especially when they’re about to graduate, it’s this kind of moment where they say, I don’t know what I’m going to do with my life. And I say, that is exactly right. You don’t know, because just get to this summer, I usually just try to break it down. What are we doing this summer? What are we doing? Because you just don’t know who you’re going to meet on that project. That will lead to the next one, to the next one.
Brad Burrow (06:14):
So just get out there and start doing something
Laura Kirk (06:18):
And be kind. Be kind. People want to work with the job we do is 12 hours a day. It’s six day weeks. A lot of times we’re just deciding, are you a good person to spend that many hours and days with?
Brad Burrow (06:33):
Yeah. Isn’t it interesting that you have to tell ’em that? I mean, to me, I feel like when I’ve directed, I want people to have a great time on set.
Laura Kirk (06:42):
Right?
Brad Burrow (06:43):
It’s like, let’s have fun doing this.
Laura Kirk (06:45):
Absolutely.
Brad Burrow (06:46):
And a lot of people aren’t like that sometimes. They’re the opposite of that.
Laura Kirk (06:51):
Yeah. I keep talking about this book I’m reading right now called Burn It Down by Maureen Ryan. That really breaks down the places and areas where it’s not like that, and it is toxic. It has been toxic, but I think we’re moving into a new way of working more like what you do and what you want to do.
Brad Burrow (07:09):
Yeah. You think that just society’s kind of changing the way, or is it the younger people coming into the industry that are more like that?
Laura Kirk (07:17):
I think it’s younger. I think there’s more transparency now. I think there’s more being willing to just speak out against things rather than just, I think the more we get away from a scarcity mindset into there’s enough for everyone, I’m going to do my thing. And understanding that you may have to work another job or you may artists, we come in all shapes and sizes and we juggle our work and our creativity in all different ways. I’ve noticed.
Brad Burrow (07:50):
Yeah. So I want to ask you about working with directors. So I had the opportunity to go out to LA and spend a week with the director of the LA Film School, and his name was James Pastor N. And it was really eyeopening because all the directing that I’ve done have been with athletes and people that really don’t know how to act. But when you direct an actress or an actor that really does know how to act, it’s a completely different approach. Can you talk about that a little bit? I mean, Ken Griffey Jr. For example, I’m directing him for a spot for television, and I’m literally telling him, say it like this. Hit these words. You don’t do that when you’re directing an actress or an actor that really knows how to act.
Laura Kirk (08:36):
Yeah. I think the thing I emphasize the most in my classes, and what I’ve noticed in the really wonderful directors I’ve had a chance to work with is I always talk about language of permission so that people feel free. Because I’ve noticed with non-actors that we talked about when we first sat down, that sense that, oh, this is unfamiliar to me. There’s a camera on me. I mean, just the simple fact that someone says, action can be really weird and put people makes you tense. Exactly. Exactly. So that’s one of the things I always talk about is just because we say action doesn’t mean you have to do anything. You could just breathe. You can just connect with the person across from you, which is really the most effective thing you can do on camera is truly connect with someone across from you. So just keeping that in mind and keeping it playful. I like most people say they like a combination of parental business and playful. They want you to be following the schedule. Nobody likes that feeling of, we’ve been here all day, what are we doing? That’s a terrible feeling on a set, but somebody who’s just saying, yeah, let’s try this. Let’s try this. Because at the end of the day, we want options when we get back to the editing room.
Brad Burrow (09:54):
Yeah, that’s true. Then you have the people that are like, Hey, we’re running over time. I’ve got to get this next shot in. You kind of have those pressures happening on a set, right?
Laura Kirk (10:05):
You do,
Brad Burrow (10:06):
But still have to deliver. One of the things that James talked to me about is giving the inspiration as a director to an actor, an actress, to make it their own, but with your idea of where it can end up. That’s a real talent, isn’t it? Not everybody can communicate that.
Laura Kirk (10:26):
Yeah. I think directing is an immensely, you have to be intuitive, but you’re also, there’s so many different kinds of training. There’s so many different kinds of people, and like you said, everybody’s bringing that little bit of themselves. And when it becomes really exciting is when you really see the truth of someone. When they’re bringing a truth to that story, they’re telling. It gets crazy exciting, and that’s what you want. You don’t want perfection, I guess is what I’m trying to say.
Brad Burrow (10:56):
Yeah, you want real. Yeah. How do you do that
Laura Kirk (11:00):
In the moment? Stay in the moment, don’t care what’s next. That’s a scary, tight ropey feeling. You’d rather control it. But if there’s a training that a lot of actors do called Meisner, which is moment to moment to moment, it’s very effective for film because we break it up. We don’t, it’s not theater where you just rehearse. There’s no rehearsal in film. So every take is rehearsal if you think about it
Brad Burrow (11:30):
And try to get to that point where you’re immersed in the scene, the character, the inspiration, all those things.
Laura Kirk (11:40):
And if you’re relying on that person, I’m relying on you now. I’m looking at you. I’m reading your face and picking up on the tone of your voice. And it’s so much easier if I’m focused on you than if I’m focused on what I’m saying.
Brad Burrow (11:55):
Yeah. How did you learn that skill?
Laura Kirk (11:59):
Well, I did train that way. So I studied with Meisner’s assistant when Hamman, I did two years at his acting studio, and then I did do another six week intensive of Meisner training. So I did a lot of Meisner training, which is this moment to moment, just pick up, pick up, don’t plan, don’t plan. Let things touch you, let things move you. But I always say that you learn from everyone you’ve ever worked with. So I’ve just had, I’ve been able to work with some really incredible actors and directors and students. I count them in. Absolutely. And I learned from everybody, and we are a product of everyone we’ve ever worked with.
Brad Burrow (12:43):
Is that the advice that you would give to somebody that maybe is wanting to get into acting? It’s like be a 24 7 learner
Laura Kirk (12:53):
And acting is doing. You can read about, it’s really fun to read about. It’s fun for us to talk about, but at the end of the day, you just have to keep doing it.
Brad Burrow (13:03):
Do you think it’s like a muscle if you don’t do it for a while?
Laura Kirk (13:05):
Sure. Oh, yeah. I used to lean on basketball way too heavily in my lectures because I would always talk about the left-handed layup and how it doesn’t feel natural. It doesn’t feel good, but boy, when you’ve got it, when you’ve drilled it and you need it in the game, it’s beautiful. They can’t get around you. So yeah, it’s drilling in practice.
Brad Burrow (13:26):
You need to go talk to Coach Self and see if you can talk to his guys.
Laura Kirk (13:32):
Oh, I remember my high school basketball coach making us do layups. No, yeah, free throws without the ball. And I was like, this is crazy. Yeah, just stand there and do that. But
Brad Burrow (13:44):
Muscle memory, huh?
Laura Kirk (13:45):
Yeah, muscle memory. Muscle memory. That’s exactly right. So that when you’re in the game, when you’re on the set, when you’re at the audition, you can rely on some muscle memory.
Brad Burrow (13:55):
Yeah. That’s awesome. Is there a film that you remember seeing when you were younger and you thought, wow, I would love to be like that?
Laura Kirk (14:07):
I tell this story in my classes that the film, for me and I, I was young. I was very young in my career, and it was a woman under the influence with General Rollins, the whole Cassavetes type of filmmaking, which was very independent, like theater, visceral work. And one of my assignments in my class is I asked them to choose an actor or a career that they really like. Like what you’re saying, oh, but I never thought I could do that. I just thought, that’s great. That’s great. What she’s doing. That’s incredible what she did, how I felt watching that. And somehow I think when you start to identify what you’re drawn to, it can draw you toward it too. And so later in my career, I did a film called The Sublime and Beautiful. And I was at the Sundance Film Festival. We were in Slam Dance, and the reviews came out and it compared me to General Rollins and a woman Under the Influence. And I burst into tears because I said, I’m not worthy. I couldn’t believe it because I’m a comedy, I like to think I’m a comedy person. I always think it’s good to think about what you like and keep watching what you like, and somehow those things meet.
Brad Burrow (15:30):
Yeah, that’s really interesting. So we are drawn to maybe where we’re skilled or where we have something deep inside
Laura Kirk (15:37):
That, or deep inside that you might even not know you’re there yet or that you might get there. And often when my students pick their subjects, I always go, oh, of course. Yeah, that’s right for you. And they go, what are you talking about?
Brad Burrow (15:49):
Yeah, the comedy thing. I always think that actors like Robin Williams, for example, the funniest guy maybe ever. And yet he could be in goodwill hunting and deliver a performance that was so real and so powerful. Something about comedy and being able to deliver lines the correct way. I think you also have the ability to do really dramatic scenes. Would you agree with that?
Laura Kirk (16:20):
Yeah. I think I always think about tragedy plus time equals comedy, and you tend to find out a lot of the great comedians have a lot of hard stuff in them.
Brad Burrow (16:28):
Yeah. Have been through. And they’ve learned how, there was a gentleman here in town named David, I don’t know if you know that name. Oh, yeah, it’s familiar. But he wrote a whole series of books and videos about people that used humor to get through very hard times. Patch Adams was one of the, you remember Patch Adams? He was one of the guys in the book that was a doctor. It’s really interesting. That’s right. You’re exactly right about that. So anyway, what makes a great actress is
Laura Kirk (17:04):
A tough question. Isn’t think we’re No, no, no. I think it’s different for everyone, but I always notice some of the same things in people. And I think it’s back to what we were talking about earlier, just being okay with not knowing what’s next and being open to moments. And I like preparation myself, but I always say, everybody, Dick Van Dyke said, I just hit my marks and wait for impulse. We talk about impulse a lot, not stifling and impulse. So not thinking you know what it’s supposed to look like or what it’s supposed to be, but just being in it and letting it carry you. So a lot of musicians, writers, all talk about, I didn’t write it. It wrote me. I didn’t compose it. It composed me. I think that’s the same way with acting. It’s a flow state. Stanislavsky talked a lot about energy and molecules and this thing that you circulate. Communion is a word that comes up a lot, and it’s not exactly the religious communion, but a similar idea in that you are becoming as one. There’s an exchange of energy, whether it’s with the other actor, the audience, when it’s theater, which is really exciting, but it’s that exchange and that chemistry that’s fun. So I guess being open and not being cut off from it.
Brad Burrow (18:26):
Yeah. I find a lot of inexperienced actors that I’ve worked with, overact. How do you know when there’s a real subtle difference between knowing maybe less is more that type of approach? I think as a director, that’s something that now I watch for a lot. It’s like, no, that’s too much. You need to bring it back. How do you do that?
Laura Kirk (18:53):
There’s a lot of little language things you can say. Just talk to each other. Just listen. Just connect. Don’t feel like you need to push. Where is this for you? A lot of my training with actors, I say, finish the sentence. This is me when, because that’s what my teacher did with us. So this is me when I argue with my sister. This is me when I’m happy with my best friend. So you’re always kind of putting yourself, what is the character? What is the character in me? Come forth. What is me in this character? It’s a symbiotic relationship.
Brad Burrow (19:30):
Hi, I am Brad Burrow, owner of Real Media, a film and production studio right here in Kansas City. We’re passionate about helping businesses like yours tell their story through captivating video content at Real Media. We specialize in video and film production, creating podcasts, commercials, documentaries, social media content, and other types of video content that help you connect with your audience. Whether you’re looking to launch a new podcast or produce a TV commercial, we have the expertise, experience, and tools to bring your vision to life. Why choose us from concept development to final delivery? We handle every aspect of the production process so you can focus on running your business. If you’re ready to take your brand storytelling to the next level, let’s chat. Visit our website@realmediakc.com or give us a call at (913) 894-8989. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you on set. So Tracy, who you met earlier, and I have been talking, we’ve been watching the judge. I don’t know if you’ve seen that with Brian Cranston?
Laura Kirk (20:31):
No, no, I haven’t.
Brad Burrow (20:33):
Did you see Breaking Bad by Chance? Yes. Okay. So he’s started
Laura Kirk (20:36):
The pilot episode. Such an amazing writing.
Brad Burrow (20:39):
Yeah. Amazing. Not to get off on a tangent too much, but he’s kind of the same character in both series feels like to me. But it is who he is. And when you’re talking about pulling out from experiences that you’ve had in the past, I mean, what else can you do that’s going to be the most authentic performance? Right.
Laura Kirk (21:02):
And it can be things you’ve observed. I love observing. I love watching how people walk and talk and picking up on dialogue. I just love it. I love that kind of observation out and about. So you can do that as well. You can definitely do character studies, and there are character actors, and then there are personality actors, and
Brad Burrow (21:22):
So yeah. Yeah, chemistry, that’s a big, big thing. And you’ve kind of hit on this a little bit, but as an actress, how do you develop chemistry on screen? That’s not easy to do.
Laura Kirk (21:37):
No, and that’s why casting directors are so good at what they do, and that’s half the battle is casting the right actors and the right combination. And I always tell so
Brad Burrow (21:46):
They have a good idea who’s going to work well together
Laura Kirk (21:48):
Or that’s why you read people together. In the callbacks, we’re doing so much more, as I was saying at the beginning, self taping and online. But I think
Brad Burrow (21:58):
That’s hard to do, isn’t it? Have chemistry in that situation. Yeah.
Laura Kirk (22:02):
If I know that for me, if I’ve had to play like someone’s wife or someone’s mother, I try to spend time with them outside of it, but I’ve also been on sets where I’m supposed to have no chemistry. And the other act like when you’re just a guest star on a TV show at Procedural, I had an actor not talk to me, just not deal with me at all. And then all of a sudden we’re doing a scene together and I would try to go, oh, hi, how are you? And they’d just turn away. And then at the end of the day, they said, I’m so sorry. I couldn’t have any chemistry with you because I’d never met you in the scene. So a lot of actors just do that on the day.
Brad Burrow (22:39):
Oh, wow. And you didn’t know that was happening at
Laura Kirk (22:42):
The time. I did not know that was happening. So now I do.
Brad Burrow (22:46):
Yeah. Very interesting. So how did you,
Laura Kirk (22:48):
But it probably worked. It probably helped our chemistry.
Brad Burrow (22:51):
Well, yeah, I bet it did. I bet it did. I, what advice? I literally just wrote down questions that I wanted ask you. So there’s no flow to it at all, which sorry people, but this is great. What advice do you have to young filmmakers? You have people coming to the KU all the time that have big ideas. I’m going to be the next Ron Howard, but really it’s not that easy. It’s very rewarding, but it’s not that easy. What do you tell young filmmakers?
Laura Kirk (23:25):
Well, I think it’s the same thing that we were talking about with muscle Memory. For actors, if you’re a filmmaker, you have to make films. So I encourage developing your voice, practicing when you’re in college, you have access to equipment and actors. There’s a lot you can work with. Never understand someone wanting to direct a feature if they’ve never made a short. It’s a lot to manage. It’s a lot of departments and people and actors are the least of your worries most of the time. I mean, you’ve got a lot. There’s the look of the film. There’s so much going on. So I just encourage a lot of short form to build up to the longer form.
Brad Burrow (24:07):
So learn the process, learn how to manage, collaborate, all those things,
Laura Kirk (24:11):
And don’t try to do everything yourself.
Brad Burrow (24:14):
One of the things James Pastor Neck said to me is, as a director, you want to hire people that are much better than you at their craft.
Laura Kirk (24:21):
You never want to be the best person on the project. Is that
Brad Burrow (24:23):
True?
Laura Kirk (24:24):
Oh my gosh, yeah. The more you can surround yourself, but you also want to surround yourself with people who have the same, you are going toward a common goal, and so it’s important that you’ve taken the time to meet people and their work. And that’s why people work. Like the Cohen Brothers or my colleague Kevin Mont, they’ll work with the same people again and again and again, because that’s that beautiful collaboration.
Brad Burrow (24:50):
Talk about Kevin. That’s got to be pretty cool having him. That’s easy. Is he a couple doors down from you or something at school?
Laura Kirk (24:56):
Well, he’s actually not there as much. He teaches some master classes now, but I was just saying that watching him when the Oscar was one of the best nights ever, he was just thrilling and wonderful. He is the reason I’m in Kansas. I had done a couple of films with him, and then when I was thinking about moving back, he said he would help me, and he did and has just been a wonderful support. I’ve worked with him, I’ve worked for him. I love, he’s a role model for me, telling untold stories, correcting history, just everything I hope to do and more.
Brad Burrow (25:35):
Yeah. Yeah. Pretty cool. Having somebody like him in Lawrence.
Laura Kirk (25:40):
Yes. And he’s funny, and he’s kind, and he taught me so much when we were making films and when I would go on to produce my own films here, he said the industry, I think it’s more here, much more here now than 10 years. That’s changing every day,
Brad Burrow (25:56):
Isn’t it? It’s
Laura Kirk (25:56):
Incredible. But when I came here 10 years ago, it was really hard to, you had to educate people. You said you have to teach people. You can’t expect them to know how sets run, how we do things, just keep teaching. And that was smart.
Brad Burrow (26:11):
And that’s what you’re doing now, right? Yeah. Are you out on set a lot with your students? I mean, are you guys doing things like that and shooting? Yeah,
Laura Kirk (26:18):
We definitely, I’m not even in the classroom for the last few weeks of my class, we’re out just making things, and a lot of capstones. I end up touching a lot of those in various ways. And so it’s all moving toward those final pieces.
Brad Burrow (26:35):
One of the things I wanted to ask you about, so I think a lot of people technically understand and how to make a beautiful image, all those things, but they don’t necessarily understand story. Would you agree with that?
Laura Kirk (26:53):
Completely agree with
Brad Burrow (26:54):
That. How do you learn story? Another hard question.
Laura Kirk (27:00):
No, there’s such simple parameters for story in film. The simplest one is the eight part sequencing. Paul Juno has a great book about it, just called the Sequence approach, but it’s because when silent films were made, they were on reels. And so to hold the audience’s attention, you had to have the thing that happened at the end of every reel. So that’s the idea that every 14, 15 pages, you have the setup, the flow of life, and then you have the hero and trying to solve a problem and so on and so forth. And now that I know it, it’s hard not to watch movies and go, oh, there’s the all is lost moment. I like it when I can’t tell. That’s what I like. So those are rules. It’s also just once upon a time, once upon a time, there’s an event, there’s a change, there’s a resolution. It’s A, B, C, telling your story, A, B, C, set up, main event closure.
Brad Burrow (28:07):
And that applies to so many things. It’s not just, it’s even a corporate. You can do a corporate video and it needs to have those same. And even if it looks beautiful and that’s not there, it doesn’t work.
Laura Kirk (28:22):
And you can break the rules, either films that are beautiful, that don’t follow those rules, that are more just imagery. And I love all types of films, but I think the problem is if you don’t really know the rules, you have no idea any meander or try to just put too much of self-indulgence, I think can kill a lot of stories.
Brad Burrow (28:43):
Yeah. Yeah. Really interesting. What about the effect of artificial intelligence, AI on film? You probably get asked that at school all the time now, I would imagine. Do students ask you those questions?
Laura Kirk (28:58):
Oh, everybody’s talking about it. Yeah. We have training at ku. We’ve discussed how to use it. I’ve had, of course, I’ve had students turn in things that are clearly ai. I mean, to the point where it says, as an ai, I don’t know the answer. Even editing that out, I think it can be really useful. And I think that the danger is, there’s a thought about it that it’s just plagiarism because you really, someone created it. AI didn’t create, they just mixed and matched it back together. Ideas drew from the data ideas. So I think protecting, I believe in intellectual property and protecting, there’s the idea. There’s no new stories under the sun. But for me, I used a musical as an example called Tuna Bomber that was in the Casey Fringe Festival, and it was about the uni bomber as if they had wanted to be a musical theater star and the writers of this project, there’s no AI that could have come up with this particular musical, only these two people being roommates, being in their apartment, watching stuff together could come up with that. So that would be one example I would use. The other thing with acting, I don’t find it as satisfying to not watch live real actors interacting with each other. They may keep getting the movements together, but I don’t think it can capture spirit.
Brad Burrow (30:34):
I would agree.
Laura Kirk (30:35):
Or those little micro moments that we were talking about at the
Brad Burrow (30:38):
Beginning. Yeah. What do you tell people that are, oh, someday this will all be ai. I hear that all the time. I have people ask me about my business.
Laura Kirk (30:47):
Sure,
Brad Burrow (30:47):
Sure. Aren’t you worried about that? Well, I don’t think I’m worried about it.
Laura Kirk (30:53):
No. I don’t think worry kind of helps anyone. You might think about how, I mean, it’s great at compiling data and
Brad Burrow (31:00):
There’s some things it’s really good at you.
Laura Kirk (31:02):
Oh, yeah. But as far as creativity, I fear for writers. I fear for illustrators. Although I do know illustrators who are enjoying using it and have described that very well. Actors I’m not worried about. And then back to my old roots theater, not worried about that.
Brad Burrow (31:22):
That’s always going to be live. Yeah.
Laura Kirk (31:24):
That’s why it’s so
Brad Burrow (31:25):
Good. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Teaching at ku. Let’s talk about that a little bit. So kind of a different thing. You’ve been 12 years, is that correct? Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Amazing. So what have you liked about that,
Laura Kirk (31:40):
The students? You’ve got one of my favorite, well, no, I don’t have favorites. I have to say that right away. I don’t have
Brad Burrow (31:45):
Favorites, Alex. We’re going to have to edit that out. Not Alex.
Laura Kirk (31:50):
I always have students that I gravitate toward, and that’s why I always say it’s subjective, especially when you’re teaching in the arts. It’s subjective. I’m not here to judge talent. I’m here to develop it and build confidence and just help explore and get that curiosity. I mean, what is learning? It’s being curious. It’s going down rabbit holes. KU is cool that because it’s a research university. So my favorite thing is watching students come out of the program and be successful. And success can look very different. It’s, there’s no specific recipe for success. It’s just developing as a human.
Brad Burrow (32:32):
Can you tell somebody coming into the program pretty quickly that this is somebody that has potential to do something in the industry?
Laura Kirk (32:40):
I think some are more driven early on, but then some are just, like I said, discovering it. So if I did that, if I thought, oh, this person, this person that would not be doing my job very well, because I think college is such a development time, it’s such a time where who knows what your background has been, who knows what kind of encouragement or not encouragement you’ve had. Is it that little thing inside of you that says, oh, I want to do this, or have people been telling you, you’re great at this, you should do this. You never know. So I like to just develop everybody and just see what comes out of it. And it always amazes me. Sometimes the shyest, most reclusive student could be the star, the most called, I never know who they’re all going to want to cast by the end. I keeping that open in that discovery. But there definitely have been a few, SAV Rogers, who has now just got distribution for his film and has been all over the place. Sav was very driven and really wanted to do this and worked really hard. And so that’s an example.
Brad Burrow (33:49):
Would he come back? Do you bring him back to talk to your students, things like that? Oh, he
Laura Kirk (33:52):
Volunteers to talk to. He talks all the time. And Riley Fullerton is another one. So Alex, I’m so glad Alex reached out to me for this. I love it when they get back in touch with me and I hear what they’re doing, and it matches kind of what they were doing when they were in
Brad Burrow (34:10):
Class. That’s a good feeling. That’s the best. The best. Yeah. Pretty cool. So what is your favorite film? Do you have a favorite film?
Laura Kirk (34:20):
I like Knights of Berria by Fellini, and I think it’s because I wandered into it and saw it on a big screen at the film forum in New York City, and it was just so transformative, and I just went places and just everything about it was just magical to me. So that’s one of my favorites. Yeah.
Brad Burrow (34:42):
Yeah. An actor or actress? Maybe both. Who’s your favorite actor? Actress?
Laura Kirk (34:47):
Oh, there’s so many different ones right now. We were just talking about Nicholas Cage. I love that. Nicholas Cage. I’ve always been a Nick Cage fan, I think, because of that dangerous element, that weird, wacky, crazy, funny element. And I really enjoy, gosh, there’s so many. Michelle Williams I think is a really exciting actor to watch. Carrie Mulligan. I really have always been a Viola Davis fan. I’ve had the chance to see her on stage, and so I saw her in fences. And I think when you can do both stage and film, that’s very interesting to
Brad Burrow (35:26):
Me. What is the difference? I’ve heard actors say that before. What is the difference between stage and film from an acting standpoint?
Laura Kirk (35:35):
So what I say in my classes is you have to reach the back of the house. You’ve got to reach all the way to that person in the backseat of the house, and in film, you have to disturb the molecules of the celluloid. It’s a disturbance, I guess is the word I would use. And when you’re doing it, when you’re doing good acting, it’s a feeling you’re in the flow. And when you see it, it touches you. It makes you laugh. You’re out of yourself when someone’s great in front of you. Music, anything.
Brad Burrow (36:07):
Yeah. So in a live theater set up, what would you tell an actor, an actress? How do you project to that person in the back? Because from a layman standpoint, you’d say, well, just speak louder, or how do you reach that person sitting in the back of the room? Maybe there’s not an answer.
Laura Kirk (36:28):
Well, no, there’s a lot of training that goes into that. So the training, again, going back to Stanislavsky, talks about the creative state, the relaxed state. So as I’m training new graduate students to teach our acting one classes, I do that. I talk about how you’ve got to spend a lot of time getting people in touch with their bodies and breathing and their center, because it has to come from here. If you are tight in your throat or your shoulders or your neck, it actually blocks emotion. And what is so exciting is when that emotion just really flows out of you. It’s a state, it’s a creative and somewhat altered state that you go into when you perform well.
Brad Burrow (37:12):
Can you talk about one of your favorite sets that you’ve been on, what that was like to somebody that’s not been around film? What is that like? I mean, you’ve got all kinds of people, maybe 40 or 50 people all doing different things, and
Laura Kirk (37:30):
I am thinking of some of the bigger, one of the bigger, I had a tiny little part in the time machine, but that was pretty astounding to see. The late 18 hundreds rebuilt, and I remember I had to wear a bone corset. They wanted it to be accurate to the time period, and I thought, who’s going to know? I’m so uncomfortable I can’t sit down. But when you see a really big set like that where they’ve recreated a whole time period, that’s pretty cool. That’s pretty magical. I’ve been on a lot of small sets where it’s less that, but I’ve shot on location and that’s fun. Even the Wrangler Jeans commercial that was at a real rodeo with real cowboys.
Brad Burrow (38:10):
Yeah. Yeah. You’ve been on some big,
Laura Kirk (38:12):
You recreate it. Yeah. So it’s fun as the actor to get kind of dropped down into this alternate reality,
Brad Burrow (38:19):
And you’ve done some pretty big brands, and from a commercial standpoint, that had to be kind of fun, huh?
Laura Kirk (38:24):
Yeah. I got to work with Bob Aldi’s, one of the great commercial directors. He did the Michael Jackson Pepsi commercials, and so I did a few with him. So Dr. Pepper and Wrangler and Jeep were all with him.
Brad Burrow (38:36):
Did they request you because of working with him?
Laura Kirk (38:38):
I think I did the first one with him, and then I’d get called in. But I do remember Wrangler Jeans. I was in LA and I do remember talking with the client about being from Kansas and that my dad raised cattle, and I think that might’ve turned the dial maybe.
Brad Burrow (38:57):
Were they here? Was there headquarters here? Or maybe it was Lee Jeans that was here?
Laura Kirk (39:01):
No, I don’t know. I did this in la, so I’m not
Brad Burrow (39:03):
Sure. Yeah, very interesting. So growing up on a farm helped a little bit then.
Laura Kirk (39:07):
Oh, everything helps Everything
Brad Burrow (39:09):
Else. Yeah. Yeah. So what advice, I think I asked you this a little bit, but for an inspiring filmmaker to get started, what do they do? I mean, you go out to la, they’re working jobs, they’re doing everything they can just to get a shot at getting into the business in Kansas, that’s maybe a little bit different. How do I do that?
Laura Kirk (39:38):
I would say community. I would say just like we talked about, Steph being so awesome. Steph connected so many people together. So the Kansas City Film Commission, there’s all these groups in Kansas. If you’re in Kansas City, just start going to these events and just meeting other people that are doing this. You need community. It’s a terrible feeling to feel like you’re in a vacuum, just trying to do something solo. If you’re in LA or New York, independent film project, go to film festivals. Listen to the filmmakers when they do the q and as. They’re wonderful. And the people who curate film festivals take it really seriously,
Brad Burrow (40:14):
And there’s opportunities to meet people and talk to people, and
Laura Kirk (40:17):
Absolutely
Brad Burrow (40:18):
Get involved in all those different types of things. I hadn’t thought about going to the film festivals as much, but there’s a lot of opportunities to network. Would you think networking is probably one of the biggest things you can do?
Laura Kirk (40:29):
It is. But you’re also, it’s common interest. There’s other people there. Seeing the films, hearing how they got theirs made is always interesting. Knowing the inspirations, I love to hear how people got where they get. That’s one of my favorite things to do, is just meet someone, maybe follow up and say, I’d just like to know more about how you got where you are.
Brad Burrow (40:55):
Yeah, very interesting. Kansas City, and I think Kansas getting film credits now. Is it not happening yet? Not yet, but we’re working on it. We
Laura Kirk (41:05):
Were so close. It honestly just got tossed aside because it actually passed both the House and the Senate, and then it got passed aside in a clump of things that Governor Kelly didn’t sign recently. So it was just because it was clumped together with some other things that they thought would not,
Brad Burrow (41:23):
So she didn’t want the other thing, so she wouldn’t
Laura Kirk (41:25):
Sign up. That’s my understanding of it,
Brad Burrow (41:27):
But at least it’s moving that direction. Missouri just
Laura Kirk (41:30):
Got down credits, and I think when we see everything happening over, there’s a lot of great things going on in Missouri
Brad Burrow (41:35):
Now and Kansas City. Can you talk about that? From a film perspective? I feel like Kansas City’s really becoming known as Absolutely. We’re not flyover anymore.
Laura Kirk (41:45):
No way. We’ve got a cool airport. Things are shooting here. People enjoy coming here and filming, and so then they go back and it makes it easier. I always used to say the more good experiences people have filming here than when you’re trying to reach out to an agent and try to get somebody to come here, they can easily find out, no, that was a great experience. You’ll love it. Go to Lawrence. Go to Kansas City.
Brad Burrow (42:09):
I think the barriers to getting into film production have come down so much, too. I mean, you can buy equipment so much less. Even our, we have red cameras and they’re eight K and all that stuff, but you can literally go out and shoot, buy a $5,000 camera and shoot a film that looks really, really good.
Laura Kirk (42:30):
Yes, you
Brad Burrow (42:30):
Can. So it’s opened up the ability to make films to a lot more people, I feel like.
Laura Kirk (42:36):
And you still have to have a really good story and really good actors.
Brad Burrow (42:39):
Yeah. Yeah.
Laura Kirk (42:40):
Because what’s going to pop you to the next level and design. I think design is a really important aspect of it. I think knowing your look and your tone is important.
Brad Burrow (42:51):
Yeah. Well, I think that’s everything I wanted to cover. We covered a lot. I sure did.
Laura Kirk (42:58):
Yeah. It’s a really good conversation.
Brad Burrow (42:59):
You did a great job. So the last thing I always have, so this podcast is called In a World of Real Media, so we have to do the movie voice. So I always go in a world with real media, so you have to do your movie voice for me
Laura Kirk (43:14):
In a world with real media.
Brad Burrow (43:20):
Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This has been awesome having you here, and maybe we can do it again sometime. Sounds great. All right. Thank you.
Brad Burrow (43:28):
This has been in a World with Real Media. Thanks for joining us. And be sure to subscribe on iTunes and follow real media on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. So you never miss an episode.